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IT Survivors - Staying Alive In A Software Job |
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Written by Harshad Oak
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Nov 03, 2005 at 12:21 PM |
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Page 5 of 19 |
Comment by Noname on 2005-11-11 03:42:34
Harshad,
Firstly, Let me congratulate you on an issue which has been on every Developer, Project Managers Mind, some have written about it earlier and many will write later. Though, I feel this is our own doing. I am a PM and have climbed up the hard way, by going thru the usual ladder - SW Trainee, SW Engg, Sr, SW Eng etc... But I do make it a point to let all my Team to leave on time, else I tell them their Productivity will Suffer. The point I want to make is a very few of us 'walk-the-talk' since in a world like ours, there are 10 other people who are willing to do the same work for 2/3 the pay and our this insecurity is taken full advantage of by our Indian companies....
As long as we are considered as 'Cheap Labour' we will be exploited, what we need to do start delivering Solutions and potray ourselves as an alternate IT Hub instead of Cheap IT Hub.
Ever wondered, why we haggle with the Sabziwala, but quitely payup an absurd amout for the same sabzi at a 5* Hotel, US and the likes have the same mindset, since we are 'Cheap' they like to haggle on the rates. Companies here should put their foot down asnd not bend backwards or Forward to 'Please' a 'Customer'.
One Solution is to Bill the Client Hourly instead, in that way Client will be wary of expecting us to worklate hours
Cheers
Orjun
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Comment by Noname on 2005-11-11 05:51:03
I just want to add few more thing.Some managers have very specific attitude problems, though they don't ask you to sit late but they somehow don't wan't you to grow.But such managers face a hard time in their life too.There were cases of employees being escalating issues to top management directly, stating that they don't want such managers.And top management heard that and made the changes accordingly.Well that is not important.There should be some way these managers learn and change their attitude,otherwise god know where would they land up ultimately.Moreover such people are just wastage of time and energy at that level.
I agree fully with late night working conditions and other points mentioned by Harshad.These points seems to be directly coming from frustrated Dev/QA/Support/TechPubs etc.
Hope this article of Harshad is read by such people and they change themselves rather "made to change". |
Comment by Noname on 2005-11-11 06:02:26
An extremely thought provoking article .. I remember working in my previous company . I used to feel tensed when i had to tell my boss that i would be leaving at 6.00 . He used to tell me that how is it possible for you to leave so early when the rest of the team mates are working . It would affect the team spirit and the culture . He used to start comparing me (girl) with the boys and stuff . Though I was married , my boss simply denied.
The point is that there are a majority people from IT industry who are bachelors and they are of the opinion that what work they have going home ? So might as well stay and impress the Big B .
So unless all of them take a stand against this , these are not going to improve . A handful of people cannot do anything about it , it has to be a group activity.
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Comment by Noname on 2005-11-11 06:38:03
Not sure if we can blacklist such managers with their names/location appearing on web and also publish names of good managers with their names/location too.
Advantage : No one would prefer to work with blacklisted people and would like to join team of good managers.
Sometimes companies take long to sort out employee issues with such cases,it would be better not join such people at first place.
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Comment by Noname on 2005-11-11 11:10:47
I think this article realy focus on real indian IT companies.I want to add more point that most of big indian compnies take more freshers to get work done in cheaper rate so that their profit will high and new joinee work for 12+ hours for just for learning exp.
Also these typical Indian Manager have attitude like Govt officer they mostly treat people under them as slave person. |
Comment by Noname on 2005-11-11 11:22:08
Yes, This is a matter of concern.
However this is typical of a labour class work environment.
Have you ever ponderd , how we have become like our maid servents, drivers and caual laboures working in our homes.
How we treat our servents ?
How we treat our Drivers ?
Talking about US and UK. Have a look at how they treat the working( labour) class people. We as an individual have so low respect for human dignity, we deserve nothing better then this.
Greed and disrespect for other human being has pushed us to this situation.
good luck
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Comment by Noname on 2005-11-11 11:57:52
It was a well written article after a very close look into this conern... yes I strongly agree that the time we contribute is much more
than the traditional 8 hours /day concept. But why is it so? The serious concern is that we are bound to contribute is this way because
we have created this situation.. yes it is we to blame.
We are always in need of a handsome package and ready to switch well ... but nowadays it is outsourced project more
into the picture there are lot other international leaders who is ready to claim for these projects. This left the management with no option
than to more work per person to pay well. As the same job with same contract amount can be done in China or some other country with more
number of people.So management has to make decision of using money against time policy. |
Comment by Noname on 2005-11-11 14:32:22
Hi!
Very well written article. I think the problem lies in the enormous popln we have. If one guy stands up and says, I want to go home at 5.00, there is only one thing that will happen. They will have another 500 people queued up for that positon the next day, with a simple e-mail.
I think we have a lot of hope. If just a few companies like you mentioned stand up and force employees not to work late, slowly employees will start placing higher value to work in those companies. Employers will slowly start to feel the pinch and start changing. This will definitely happen, but at what time is the question? I feel people like HD Deve Gowda who spend their time talking senseless things should take up these issues. It all dpeends on how well our political heroes can stand up.
Regards,
Subbu,
J2EE Programmer. |
Comment by Noname on 2005-11-11 15:00:06
It is an important topic but the solution to the problem is any thing but simple.
I work for one of the big Indian I.T. companies. When I used to toil for 14 hours a day 6.5 days a week in India, I used to think that when I run things, things will be very different. That the estimates will be realistic and every body will work normal hours. When I got a chance to bid for projects and prepare proposals for clients in the U.S., I could see the root of the problem. It starts right from the moment when the customer asks for a proposal. There is intense competition amongst vendors (most of who are based in India) With little difference among them; the lowest cost becomes the clincher. My efforts to push back on ridiculous estimates resulted in only one thing – loss of opportunity for my company. The competing rival was more than happy take the opportunity since he did not mind making his people toil to produce results. With a number of Indian vendors cutting each other throat alongside the emergence of software factories in China, Eastern Europe, South America I do not see a realistic solution to this problem at this juncture. There will always be some one on the globe willing to work hard for a “lot of money†(from relative perspective). Things like pushing back and learning to say a “plain no†are not likely to produce long lasting results.
A software “factory†is labor intensive. The situation in software industry today is very similar to the situation in Europe after the industrial revolution. Just as industrial revolution gave rise to manufacturing factories that were labor intensive, the information revolution has given rise to labor intensive software factories. The advancement in technology reduced the reliance on human labor in manufacturing industries. The ongoing automation in software industry will also produce the same result in software industry
.. eventually. We are not there yet
.but this is definitely a passing phase.
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Comment by Noname on 2005-11-12 08:43:41
Thank you for such a good article and thanks for providing opportunity for people to express their views.
A neutral opinion from my side:
Well, based on experience, wherever we work, irrespective of whether it is software or some other industry, our bosses determine things for us. If we get into a right project with right people at right time, things will always be with us and we never have to grib on things like - oh boy, we work for long hours a day - causing problems to our health
We (software people) ourselves should not give an impression to the world that we are treated bad. If we have concerns/issues about timing and work culture, we can have that resolved by having appropriate discussion with our bosses / HR teams.
If things go out of our hands, then, we probably have to wait for good things to happen whereas continuing our best-possible contribution.
Looking at a different angle, we are the one of the classes of people in the world who get enormous work at one point in time and NO WORK at some other point in time - any comments agains this?
I believe that based on our shallow knowledge, we are trying to think that only in India we have tight and long schedules(per day) in our industry. No, it is not true. Even in the other countries, there are many non-Indians who slog like anything - working for more than 12 hours a day. The only difference may be that in some places, they probably work from their home after office hours.
Most of us will definitely be well aware of people working in decent restaurants (not the star hotels). Even these people work for more than 12 hours a day. Though these people do not need to think much, they are forced to work due to competition. Also, these people do not even sit for long hours - will this not affect their health?
The basic thing that anybody would have encountered in Economics is "Basic problems of all societies". As software engineers, we guys are gathering together to form forums to protect us - Similarly other professionals discuss among themselves about the way they are treated and their work culture. I would like to appreciate one of the responses to your article - where that person has talked about the diginity of labour in India - well said sir.
One more opinion about the comment on "Employee of the Month". I don't know how much analysis took place before making a statement that "Appraisals should be against people working for long hours". I believe two sides of the coin were not analyzed here perfectly. The boss who announced that award obviously cannot be an unreasonable person - that is why he was appointed as the boss for a team. So, if such a boss declares "Employee of the month for a person who worked for long hours" - there definitely, unarguably and undeniably a reason why he did that - probably, the boss and the person who got the award only will know the true picture. Probably, that is how the work should have been carried out. Without true pictures given, it is definitely not possible to accept Negative appraisals against such a person who worked for long hours.
People who are in right-project at right time with right people can easily make a statement saying - the person working for long hours does something wrong. Though in some cases this may be true, unless we analyze the practicality, we cannot tell anything about that. Also, sometimes, slogging is always required to make things happen - however wise/smart/clever a person may be.
Only people who are both clever, patient and devoted can make innovative or appropriate things happen. Just by being smart, the success acheived is only partial. Because, people doing work should possess knowledge about the work plus devotion towards that; this dedication or devotion sometimes might take long time - but this need not be misunderstood to be the inefficiency of a person.
Many inventions and discoveries in the world happened not only with intelligence - but with dedication and devotion also. A success is like a coin having two sides - SMART side and the devotion side - both have to be admired. A boss will be biased if we appreciates only a person who is just SMART. These two can be compared with the question "Who is important - a house-wife mother or a rich-father - in a traditional Indian family?".
The problem we are dealing with is like a loop - Team members will say No and the bosses will say Yes. It happens in any industry - the bottom workers will say No and the management will say Yes. Unless we are exceptionally and extra-ordinarily powerful, we have to continue our gribbing - irrespective of wherever we work.
One question to our SW folks : Will you be willing to work in a company forever which will pay you an amount equivalen to Government salary with the rewards you expect plus the timing 9 AM to 5 PM? Most of the people in our industry might definitely say No to this - But, if they say Yes - then, we can change India and we should be happy about that.
How many of us will be willing to work in a domestic project in India earning a low-pay? If we do that, in the long-run, we would have produced THE ROLE MODEL - INDIA in the WORLD.
If we think about how Japan came up - we will start changing our thinking.
All the problems we have talked about really are the result of "a person thinking only about himself". If we are truly thinking about a "VICTORIOUS INDIA" and "A ROLE-MODEL INDIA" and "AN INTEGRATED INDIA", our opinions will change.
But , there is a saying - "CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME" - Yes, except for a very few people, "CHARITY BEGINS ONLY AT HOME".
But, if the problems we have discussed about our industry assume enormous proportions, we definitely have to take steps.
THE FINAL SOLUTION : AS WITH ANY PROBLEM, TIME IS THE ONLY THING THAT CAN SOLVE ANY PROBLEM - meaning, we either will change our thinking in the due course of time or the industry will change and work in a way we expect.
Though we have to take good things from other culture - like the dignity of labour in the western countries, we have to be practical and think about our population and the fierece competition prevailing in India.
As Darwin's theory says "FITTEST PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS SURVIVE" - Please do not take the meaning "SMART" for "FITTEST". Darwin's words can be put otherwise as "ONLY PEOPLE WHO CAN REMAIN SATISFACTORY WITH WHATEVER THEY HAVE CAN THINK THEM TO BE FITTEST. SO, ONLY SUCH PEOPLE CAN SURVIVE" |
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