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Page 4 of 5 Satish Talim >> Where do you see “Rails” going from here?
David Heinemeier Hansson >> It's all up from here. The current level of enthusiasm is mainly being generated by early adopters and thought leaders coming over. The tipping point is still in its infancy.
Satish Talim >> How does your company 37signals make use of “Rails”?
David Heinemeier Hansson >> 37signals uses Rails for all application development. These applications serve as great poster children for what Rails can do. I invite everyone to have a look at http://www.basecamphq.com, http://www.backpackit.com, http://www.tadalist.com, and http://www.writeboard.com. And we're currently working on two new applications also powered by Rails: Sunrise and Campfire.
 Satish Talim >> Thanks David for sharing your views on “Rails.”. On behalf of the many Ruby User Groups and companies interested in Ruby and “Rails” development in India, I am inviting you to India to talk to us about “Rails”. Anything else you would like to share with the IndicThreads readers?
David Heinemeier Hansson >> Have more fun programming. Are those XML configuration files making you happy? If not, maybe you should play around with Ruby on Rails for a while. It's really easy to get started (and even easier to get hooked).
Satish Talim >> Readers can keep up with David through his blog http://www.loudthinking.com
Satish Talim has been in the software development field since 1978 and has been working with Java since the first Beta. Satish has helped many US software companies like Infonox and others, to set-up their subsidiaries in Pune, India . Nowadays, he does consulting, training and other odds and ends with Java and other languages, including Ruby. He loves to blog on Java, Ruby and Chess.
Related:
>> Books On Ruby On Rails
>> A Python in Java land
>> Like to code in Java, Python, Ruby
>> Projects driving
the AJAX functionality of Ruby-On-Rails
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Comment by Noname on 2006-02-01 22:27:05
To the "change guy". Sure it is, that's why Java have changed so much since it was first released.
I'm kind of sick of open source zealots. I wasted a precious time using PHP before Java because of the "advices". PHP sucks big time, Perl that I also use is good but for big projects is a pain to maintain, now what? You want perfectly reasonable people to switch their clients to something not proven using the "change" argument?
Sure everything changes, but please, do better than that. Offer us a COMPLETE SOLUTION to our problems, not "Hey, look at how my HelloWorld, isn't it cool? I don't know what Enterprise is".
"Change" and "happiness" are not valid arguments.
I believe Java is morphing into something better all the time. Now with the script api in the JVM (Java 6) I believe it's going to get easier for adding other languages to the platform (which is not something new, we have other languages already), and we will have all Python, Ruby or whatever has to offer at our reach without leaving Java world.
A piece of advice, take a look at the SE javadocs. |
Comment by Noname on 2006-01-31 21:21:08
+1 for the comment: "Bruce dont you make part of your living selling books that you write?..."
You're very active in preparing the launch of a new book I image - you also recently posted an 'article' which was quoted on TSS: "Beyond Java" where you thoroughly advocate RoR as the next best thing and dismiss Java/J2EE as 'old school' and 'just not fun anymore'. Questionable arguments if I may say so.
Java/J2EE technology has matured into a enterprise platform, supported by excellent tools and frameworks, you can productively use to create enterprise (web) applications. Maybe it is maturity you don't like, but for us and our customers it the only thing that counts. Run along now. |
Comment by Noname on 2006-01-31 10:20:12
Bruce dont you make part of your living selling books that you write?since the hot Buzzword thing is RoR right now, i wouldnt take your advice seriosuly unless you give a statement which doesnt benfit you in anyway possible.I know your next book will be on RoR , you started RoR series with Beyond Java?Pardon me if i sounded bad there, but i see an ulterior motive behind what you do. |
Comment by Noname on 2006-01-31 21:20:23
Okay, so RoR is doing some really innovative things with the web. I'll be the first to admit that, but there's nothing that it's doing that Java can't do, it just happens to have it embedded. If someone would just sit down and realize that you can write applications in just as much time with JSPs and a good API that offers similar advantages as RoR does Ruby loses all its glimmer and just shows itself to be what it is, just another scripting language.
The syntax of Ruby is far too relaxed. I have enough trouble trying to maintain people's bad Java code than to worry about relaxing the structural constraints further to allow people to write even more hideous code.
I'm amazed at how many java "gurus" (notice the quotes) are on-board with Ruby, but my opinion is either they've just sold out, or just haven't thought this through. There's not a single professional Java developer I've talked to that thinks RoR is a complete solution. The idea seems to be, "Use Ruby for the small stuff and Java for the larger projects", but what happens when those small projects grow? Sorry, but I'm sticking to a language that's not going to fall apart when things start getting a little complicated and outside of its simple APIs grasp.
-Matt Hicks |
Comment by Noname on 2006-01-31 04:07:24
[B]Bruce Tate[/B][URL=http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2005/11/16/ruby-the-rival.html]Bruce Tate[/URL] says - "There are developers that can't stomach learning servlets, Spring, XML, Hibernate, Struts and then some UI glue frameworks. They're going to be unleashed in Rails. There are also Java developers who are already looking for more leverage and finding it in Ruby on Rails. The number of Java visionaries adopting Rails, from Thought Works to James Duncan Davidson to Stuart Halloway to David Geary, is staggering." |
Comment by Noname on 2006-01-31 10:19:43
"Rails is optimized for programmer happiness..."
I have no words to express my despise for this assertion. Not for the "happines", but:
- the slogan among Ruby zealots is around "happines", maybe to avoid objective comparisons;
- who doesn't want "happiness"?
- Is there anything more subjective than happiness?
- Is this some sort of "enforcement of (my) happiness on others"-nazi-like thing?
Happiness may be many things to many people.
Now objectively:
- The maturity of tools for Java is unseen in Ruby camp;
- The tools save a lot of typing and manual jobs, such as editing XML, and also provide neat options such as refactoring. So complaining about Java's verbosity only comes from someone that never actually passed beyond the HelloWorld.java on notepad;
- "Enterprise" applications are called "enterprise" because they support high loads without breaking, run on high end hardware, usually counts with 24x7 support, have nice features such as distributed transactions and other things;
- Java is complete platform with a huge standardized library saving the programmer's time;
Sure Ruby has its uses, just like everything else, but this "happiness" talk seems more like 15 year old kids talking about programming. |
Comment by Noname on 2006-01-30 13:12:25
He doesn't say what is special about Rails and
WHY?
1) Rails is well suited to Fortune 1000 "enterprise" applications
2) Java should retire from the spotlight of web applications
3) Majority of new web-application development will leave Java
4) Rails is suited to AJAX
It would take more to convince the Java community than just statements from David. |
Comment by Noname on 2006-01-30 23:25:01
Java is not going to fade away; has Cobol faded? All Java programmers need to keep an open mind, least they find one day that they are no longer in demand. |
Comment by Noname on 2006-01-30 23:25:27
Java developers need to keep an open mind about any technology; don't get married to it. Java's not going to fade away; has Cobol faded away? Java's product life cycle is more or less over and there's a strong chance that in the years to come, more and more products, applications would be built using technologies like Rails rather than Java. |
Comment by Noname on 2006-01-31 00:21:02
Let IBM start developing Websphere based on ROR , Oracles oc4j based on ROR , BEA develop their weblogic etc etc and hell i might just switch to ROR.Personally i feel safe when there are few BIG companies behind the product iam choosing, which is why i went with java in the first place.Until then, i will be more than happy to use RoR for my personal homepage, conduct polls online etc, etc.java retire cuz of RoR right now?nah i dont think so.. |
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